I feel sorry for the people who unfollowed afistfulofstyle, because that probably means they missed this essay and this point:

People care!  They want to wear nice things that make them look good. But now we’re arguing over whether our girlfriend or our blog friend has more influence, but not about how we feel about what we’re wearing.

In all seriousness though, it’s going to be interesting to see what the #menswear bloggers will have to say in response to this essay at Park & Bond (written by Marisa Zupan of The Significant Other).

My initial reaction was negative to her opening graf:

We are in the middle of an epidemic. And by we, I mean women. And by epidemic I mean this: men everywhere have stopped asking us, “does this look okay?” Slowly but surely, the once highly regarded woman’s opinion is slipping in the ranks as a sartorial standard.

My first thought was, “Well, isn’t it a good thing that guys are starting to know not only how to dress themselves, but have enough self-confidence (SWAG SWAG SWAG!) to go through their life without having to rely on the opinions of others — regardless of gender?”

But as I said, it’s a bit of knee-jerk reaction, especially if you read through the rest of the essay to understand the context of Zupan’s opening statement. There’s a cultural/heritage lesson tied to it and it’s that historical viewpoint that directly comes into conflict with the modern-day well-dressed man’s reality. That is to say that men dressed appropriately in the context of a society’s past traditions, which was rooted in real-world interactions rather than in the modern context of digital oversharing through social networks.

Zupan asserts — perhaps with some good reason — that men are now dressing to impress their blog buddies or cubicle comrades with a “dress-by-numbers approach”. I’m not naive to think that Zupan’s pigeonholing all well-dress gents and all menswear bloggers into the same category, but I think she does skip over a much larger modern cultural issue that could explain why guys today aren’t turning to women for approval or advice.

I think many of us were raised by a generation that wasn’t out to be dressed well. A generation that wanted to be casual continuously throughout life and found proper tailoring stuffy and unimportant. If you look at middle-America during the past three decades, I’m not entirely convinced you’ll find the cultural and societal support around for building a generation of well-dress Millennials.

What we do have, however, is the Internet, which has opened us up to a lot more information from around the world and we’re now able to share ideas faster and get feedback instantly. We can do research and buy from a greater number of retailers. And because we’re a generation that’s grown with being socially connected through the Internet, it’s probably natural why it would seem we’re dressing to impress it first. You always want the approval of your elders who taught you — except in this case we are our own elders.

Obviously, this is rather subjective and I’m sure others will find parts to agree or disagree with in their own experience. Still, I don’t think guys are purposefully ignoring the opinion of the fairer sex, but rather just living out the feedback system that they’re more tapped into.

Really, it comes down to the fact that this goes deeper than men asking women if this tie looks OK. It’s about men needing to unplug more and involve themselves deliberately in the real world. 

(Link via jonathanevans)

afistfulofstyle’s reaction to the GQ UK piece about Gay Talese:

I would like to make this very clear to anyone sitting in the back row. FUCK THIS ASSHOLE.

None of these numbers apply to a “limited” budget.

[…]

That is the talk of someone who is rich and has no idea what the rest of the world lives like.  $2,000 is over 6 months rent for me.  It is probably more than my food budget for a year.  It is not something that I could (or again, anybody I know could) ever afford for clothes even really nice ones.

I don’t think he’s saying you SHOULD spend $5,000 on a suit and $2,000 on shoes if you’re clearly not making that kind of money. I think he’s saying that if you’re the kind of person who COULD spend money to buy yourself a pool or expensive golf clubs, then you COULD also be a person who places that kind of money into clothing instead, which is something he values.

I think it’s all relative. Realistically, divide his numbers by ten and I’m sure it seems reasonable to most people who are living at a clearly different income level. You also have to remember he’s speaking to the GQ audience, who are the kind of people who (apparently) can afford the type of wares GQ flashes in front of their readership (ie: crazy expensive stuff).

One of the most eyebrow raising parts was how he mentioned he bought a few Brioni suits off-the-rack as a budding journalist, which I know is very much impossible today for any entry-level journalist’s starting salary (about $30,000 a year if you’re lucky, a new Brioni suit costs about a sixth of that).

Again, he’s making a larger point that you can dress well on any budget, which I’m sure is something almost anyone can agree with. His point is that if you prioritize your budget — at any level — then you can afford to dress well. At least, that was my takeaway.

ADDING: Jesse at PTO has written a lengthy response.

ADDING: Derek has also written a response at PTO.

thestealthblogger:

My fashionista roommate has been urging me to start tucking in my shirts on a more regular basis to step up my style game. And I was going to, but then I read this article by some guy who says different.

This article totally feeds into my predisposed attitude of remaining in the world of the untucked. I’m so confused!

My roommate brought this article to my attention and I think it’s worth discussing.

First, they don’t give four reasons why one shouldn’t tuck in a button-down dress shirt (or sport shirt, for that matter). Instead, they give four different shirts that they think guys shouldn’t tuck in.

Frankly, I agree that T-shirts, sweaters and sports jerseys shouldn’t be tucked into your pants if they are your main outer layer. As for button-down shirts, I still maintain that they should be tucked in a majority of the time.

I completely disagree with their logic here:

Unless you’re 6’3” and 200 lbs. or less — let the panels loose. The way button down shirts are cut; they simply do not flatter most male physiques. Especially those of the average American male in his 30’s. Yes, this means you. You have to be a lean, mean fighting machine to get away with the ultra tight tuck. And even then it rarely looks great.

First off, if you’re a heavier guy, then you definitely need to tuck your shirt in. If you don’t do that, then the ends of your shirt will drape over your midsection like a dress.

Secondly, if your shirts are cut too big, then either buy shirts that are cut more trim or take your shirts to a tailor. The idea that baggy fabric will “hide” your physique is a myth. Instead, it’ll add visual pounds because your body has no shape beneath it.

Third, and this point didn’t really even come up in the article’s argument, but tucking your shirt in just will look better. It looks less sloppy and more put together.

Can you ever have your shirt untucked? Sure. Typically, I’ll leave my OCBDs untucked if I’m running around outside of work or just lounging around the apartment. But most times if I’m making the effort to go anywhere to meet someone specific, sit down to eat or out to an event of any sort, I’ll tuck my shirt in. The lines are cleaner and the belt acts as a visual separation between the upper and lower body. I feel the lack of a visible waist often gives a person a shapelessness look.

Anyone else have thoughts? Chime in and I’ll add your comments to this post.

ADDING from acuteobtuse:

The length of the shirt is also an important consideration in the tucking/not tucking debate. If it’s too long, you look like you’re wearing a dress. If it’s too short, you look like you’re wearing a girl’s shirt.

Agreed. I think the rule of thumb is if the shirt tail hits or goes past the crotch of your pants, then it needs to be tucked in.

From girouxmcisaak:

The thing about that untuck article is that he doesn’t specify what type of pants he’s pairing it with. And since he’s also talking about sports jerseys and t-shirts, I’m just going to go out on a limb and assume he’s talking about jeans.

I don’t think it’s impossible to pull off a button-up with jeans, but I’d say it’s harder than with slacks or chinos. I’m seeing his audience as the people I see around the mall, the 30-50 year old dad wearing BLUE jeans, with a button-up or t-shirt tucked in, and I will say that it would absolutely look better untucked.

This is true. I think if the dress shirt’s tucked into jeans and a sport coat or blazer is worn over it, then you’re good. But by itself, it can look a bit odd, like you’ve not executed the high-low look very well. I think a more casual shirt looks better tucked into jeans.

evolvingstyle chimed in:

I don’t think you can make a blanket statement either way about whether being tucked or untucked is more flattering to a man’s physique. It seems to me that it depends on at least three factors: 1) where excess weight is carried; 2) the cut of the shirt; 3) the rise of the pants. Overweight men don’t all carry the fat in the same places. I have love handles, rather than a gut. I find that untucked, they are more concealed. However, that also requires that the shirt is taken in a bit and doesn’t simply blouse from below my pits. If the shirt has some shape, then I don’t just look like a dumpus. Finally, it seems to me that rise is the great unconsidered factor here. Untucked, it doesn’t really matter. However, tucked in, on a very low rise can look bad if the shirt pulls out of the back, creating a blousing effect.

Ultimately, I think the choice needs to be made for each individual guy, with each combination of shirt and pants. Ideally, you have someone in your life with a good eye and honesty who can tell you which looks better.

Good point about the rise on the pants. Hadn’t occurred to me to think about that.

And next up afistfulofstyle:

I know I’m late to the party, but I thought I’d add my $.02.

I’m surprised this is so contentious because I think it’s fairly simple. I stick to pretty much one rule, if the bottom hem is more than halfway down my fly zipper I always tuck. If it is shorter I might tuck, but might untuck depending on how casual my look is.

If my shirt is blousing, it’s probably a bit baggy anyway (I can’t afford to get everything tailored, so sue me) and won’t look any better untucked, just more shapeless and less blousey. Usually, if I’m having this problem, I just wear a jacket or vest over it.

Also, on a sidenote, none of his arguments have any merit. Nobody who’s the slightest bit interested in personal style tucks in t-shirts, jerseys or sweaters (unless they’re doing something extremely deliberate). Also, he’s talking about sports jerseys as being acceptable outside of a sporting event, how would you ever take this guy seriously?

Nothing to add to that, because I tend to agree with everything said.

Via girouxmcisaak:

In this school of thought, you are looking to deal with the largest components before you even start worrying about the small details.  While the details make an outfit, they are worthless if you don’t have the basics down pat.  I’m going to walk you through a possible outfit with the types of things you can ask yourself.

Worth reading the whole thing. If you’re having trouble trying to figure out how to make an outfit work, this process simplifies it a bit.

ordinaryglory:

I’m 25 years old. I’ve been dressing myself since I was in high school, and I didn’t have to wear a uniform. I know my measurements by heart, forwards and backwards. I know what I think looks good on me, and I don’t make apologies for it.

Please go read his whole post, because he sums up perfectly why I often dislike shopping in most retail stores. While I like to try things on, get a feel for the fabric and see the details, I really don’t like pushy salespeople who don’t share my aesthetic.

What blows my mind though is a sales associate who tries to convince a customer they’re wrong! Whatever happened to “The customer is always right”?

If you start to look at what isn’t flattering with a discerning eye, you can see why it doesn’t work and then start dressing to your strengths. For instance, the reason I don’t look good in sweater vests is because it adds a lot of weight and attention to my torso, adding bulk where I don’t need it. Additionally, it sections off my body so that the focal point is my torso.

Another great essay from girouxmcisaak, who points out that sometimes knowing the opposite of what looks good on you is helpful, too.

This reminds me of a story I heard once about Steve Jobs, who was asked once what he was most proud of during his time at Apple. Was it the iPod? Or maybe the early iMac? How about software an introducing a pricing model for music through iTunes? Or what about completely changing the mobile phone market with the iPhone?

His answer was simply that he wasn’t the most proud of what products the company released, but he was really proud of the things he said “no” to during the course of making those products. By learning to say “no,” he ended up with a stronger product. By not trying to do everything, Apple was able to excel at doing a few things perfectly. I think that’s a really valuable lesson.